Show Notes: coder.show/465

The post Mike's Magic Mom | Coder Radio 465 first appeared on Jupiter Broadcasting.

Kaia is the CEO cofounder of keyboardio – premium ergonomic keyboard using open source and open hardware!

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Show Notes:

• Keyboardio: heirloom-grade keyboards for serious typists
• keyboardio (@keyboardio) | Twitter
• (1) Keyboardio
• Keyboardio (@keyboardio) • Instagram photos and videos
• Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
• Welcome to delightful, modern payroll | ZenPayroll
• HipChat – Private group chat, video chat, instant messaging for teams | HipChat
• Kaia Dekker (@quince) | Twitter

Transcription:

ANGELA: This is Women’s Tech Radio.
PAIGE: A show on the Jupiter Broadcasting Network, interviewing interesting women in technology. Exploring their roles and how they’re successful in technology careers. I’m Paige.
ANGELA: And I’m Angela.
PAIGE: So, Angela, today we’re interviewing Kaia, she is from Keyboardio, which is a badass software company that is trying to reinvent the way that we use keyboards, and we talked to her about the Kickstarter process, the open hardware process, the open software process, and how she got involved in all that, so it’s a really fascinating interview.
ANGELA: And before we get into that, I just want to mention that you can support Women’s Tech Radio and the Jupiter Broadcasting Network by going to Patreon.com/today. That is a general bucket of Jupiter Broadcasting support. We have a bunch of other shows, but specifically if you go there and you donate, it is also contributing to Women’s Tech Radio.
PAIGE: And we get started by asking Kaia what she’s up to in tech today.
KAIA: I am Kaia Dekker and I’m currently the co-founder and CEO of a company called Keyboardio. We make premium ergonomic keyboards that are also open hardware, so they’re super hackable. We give you the firmware source, we give you schematics for the electronics, and still are selling it fully assembled as a finished product, but at the same time, it’s also open hardware. So if you want to open it up and hack it, you can.
PAIGE: So, an open hardware keyboard. How did you get there?
KAIA: My co-founder who is also my husband had really bad wrists and cubital tunnel, like a repetitive stress injury from typing too much. He professionally had been a programmer for most of his life, and had tried out something like 20 or 30 different ergonomic keyboards, and none of them were really working for him. So he started out as sort of a hobby project trying to build his own that would be tailored specifically to him and have a working keyboard that wouldn’t make his wrists hurt too much. And he started sort of spending more time on this and I was just getting out of business school and was trying to kind of what I wanted to do next. I knew I didn’t want to go back to the companies that I had worked at before, but hey, we may be able to spin this into a business! And keyboards in particular were really interesting to me, mostly from a blank slate design perspective where it’s this thing that most of us are using for eight hours plus almost every day that we literally have our hands on every day. It’s a very intimate, long lasting relationship with an object, but it’s not something that had seen a lot of design or really thought put into the design. Innovation, the basic keyboard design, it’s based on what a typewriter looked like in the nineteenth century which was based on how you could build something in the nineteenth century. The technology has come a lot farther, the understanding of what makes for good design has come a lot farther, and there is no reason not to make something that would be better. So I was really attracted to the idea of being able to rethink this tool that we use all the time and what would it be like if you were to start over a little bit. We ended up with something, it’s a little weird, a little different. So the materials are different. We have an enclosure made out of wood as opposed to plastic or aluminum. The shape is really different. It’s based around originally research on different hand shapes and what keys people can reach easily, and iterated probably two dozen times before we ended up where we are today. It’s fully programmable, so it’s trying to be a little bit smarter as a piece of hardware as opposed to just sort of a dumb input device.
ANGELA: Right, and specifically one of the first things I pick up when I see your keyboard is that it’s the left and the right hand are separated. They’re broken in the middle if that makes sense. And we’ve seen Microsoft put out a keyboard like that, but what they did was they took a standard keyboard and just broke it in half essentially and moved it at an angle, whereas yours, the actual keys are placed differently with more focus on thumb work than any other keyboard that I’ve seen.
KAIA: Yeah, so we’ve put the keys in columns because that’s the way, if you look at your hands and sort of bend your fingers, they move in a column. They don’t move in a sort of strange diagonal method, the staggered layout of a traditional keyboard. And we’ve actually somewhat subtly arched them to follow the actual arch that your fingers make. It takes a bit of retraining to follow an ergonomic layout, but once you do, it just feels a lot more natural, which makes sense. It’s building something designed around how your hands work as opposed to just following the sort of cargo culting the same thing that we’ve done for a very long time.
ANGELA: Now, I have a question. It is reprogrammable, but when I was taking typing classes back in seventh and eighth grade, I learned some history about keyboards, and that is that they used to be in alphabetical order, and this may or may not be accurate.
PAIGE: It’s accurate.
ANGELA: Okay. And that it was scrambled onto the keyboard because people were too fast. They learned it, they knew the prediction of where the letters would be based on the alphabet was too fast, so they scrambled them up to slow people down because the technology couldn’t keep up. Well, I think technology can keep up now, and I am wondering have you, well, because it’s reprogrammable, I think anybody can change how the letters are, but have you done any specific keyboards with it in alphabetical order instead of scrambled?
KAIA: Yeah, so there are a lot of stories. It’s actually really fascinating the history of why people stuck with QWERTY when it isn’t a particularly good design. I still type QWERTY because I’ve been typing it for decades, and for me, learning a new layout wasn’t going to be enough faster, enough more efficient. For me the limiting factor isn’t usually how fast I can type, it’s how fast my brain goes. And so, until I learn how to think faster, I’m not going to worry too much about optimizing for speed. Definitely, some of the people we’ve had beta testing are people who used vorac or other alternative key layouts. There’s actually a very fascinating group of people who have a community online where they will basically track all of their key presses and then feed it into a program to figure out their own personal custom layout that minimizes finger movement. So you can have your own thing that’s completely different from anyone else’s. Otherwise, QWERTY is pretty standard. Vorac is pretty common, and then there is something sort of similar to vorac but based on a more recent and bigger purpose of data to figure out where to put the keys called culmac and that’s actually built into Mac OS and other things as well, so it’s pretty popular. Not as popular as vorac, and of course, not nearly as popular as qwerty, but those three plus one other alternative are built into the firmware by default, and then if you want to change what any particular key does, you are able to do that as well.
ANGELA: Now, if I go to keyboard.ao, there is a lot of information on here, and it shows the keyboard, but I’m wondering, what I don’t see is, and/or, are you planning to put out a ten key?
KAIA: We’ve thought about it. Right now we are just about to ink a contract for manufacturing our first product, the model one, which is what’s called a 60 percent keyboard. It doesn’t have a separate tenkey pad, and I think once we’ve got that produced, or a little further down the line, we’re going to really kind of look at the product road map and figure out what comes next. Right now we’re a small company and we don’t quite have the resources.
ANGELA: Honestly, if the keyboard were better and more functional, easier to reach the numbers, maybe ten key, maybe it would eliminate that need which I think is what Paige was kind of snobbily implying with her–you didn’t even comment, but you said you and your tenkeys or whatever.
PAIGE: I have a lot of friends that I’ve gotten into this argument, because I have friends who won’t buy laptops that don’t have tenkeys.
ANGELA: Well, you could always get a USB tenkey.
PAIGE: How often do you actually use a ten key?
ANGELA: That’s the thing, if your work is in numbers, it is very handy.
PAIGE: If you’re an accountant or something.
ANGELA: Well, even some things I do, I would really prefer a ten key, so I was just curious.
KAIA: We do have a numlock mode that turns kind of the right hand side into basically a ten key, which is definitely, I’m the one that gets stuck doing all of the accounting, and I switched to that for doing that. It’s easier.
PAIGE: That actually makes even more sense than a separate tenkey.
ANGELA: Yes, it does, you’re right.
PAIGE: So, you’ve been kind of on this journey. What was it like to go from kind of a business background kind of into this crazy tech world? You dove in deep. This is hardware, software, open source on both side, it’s a pretty complex crazy project.
KAIA: Yeah, I’ve never been one for just sticking my toe in. I’m kind of a jump all the way in kind of girl. I’d always been interested in tech. I went to a technology magnet focused high school and then I went to MIT which has a very strong engineering culture and a lot of people building things for fun on the weekends and in the evenings, and I’ve always followed that and been interested in that. I ended up sort of in business almost somewhat accidentally. I had been a physics major and undergrad and thought that I’d been sort of pushed that way by teachers and so on, and I thought okay, this is what I’ll do as a career. And then I sort of realized junior year that I didn’t have, one the type of mind that works really well doing physics research, and two, I didn’t really have the temperament to live an academic type of life. You need to be a type of person who can work by themselves and be very driven and work in a very hardworking, but in many ways, a very slow paced environment. That just wasn’t, I realized by that time, that wasn’t the kind of environment where I did my best work or where I was happiest. I preferred working with other people, like things that are much more fast paced, even if you’re working on something that’s not as fundamental as understanding new things about the universe, I’m just happier when I’m working on fast paced things with a lot of different people to bounce ideas off of and to learn from. So I kind of pivoted I guess into doing then technology investment banking which has paid very well, but I sort of left as soon as I got my first bonus check, and I did managing consulting for a while, and then software marketing, then ended up doing this. It’s interesting. There is definitely things that you get used to when you’re working for large companies or on behalf of very large companies that just don’t apply in the startup world where you have to learn to get by with a lot fewer resources when you’re a startup, and there’s no one a lot of times where you can go out and find the person in such and such department who knows about something because you are the such and such department.
PAIGE: You’re every department.
KAIA: Yeah, but it’s been great. We relocated to the San Francisco Bay Area which has been amazing just in terms of there is a community of hardware startups out here, and anything from you need to borrow a part last minute or getting someone to take a second look at your boards and trying to figure out why they’re not working or getting advice on how to choose a manufacturer, whether or not paying for a sourcing agent is worth it. Anything from the business end to a big architectural type decisions to just day to day prototyping help, like it’s been so amazing to be around so many really talented, really interesting people working on hardware. It’s really been amazing.
PAIGE: That’s really neat that the community would still play such a role. You would think hardware is so much more of a, I don’t know, a set thing, that there’s more like set ways to do it, but I think it’s just as mutable as software.
KAIA: It’s much more so now than it was 20 years ago or even five or ten years ago and I think it’s still shaking out a little bit. Historically, at least, hardware was something that took huge investment and had very low returns and was something that you could only do if you were a big company or had a lot of money. The prototyping phase of things has gotten so much easier with it being very accessible to have rapid prototyping technologies like 3D printing or laser cutters and CNC mills and so on being much more accessible due to things like tech shop or Hackerspaces where they have these machines available and let people from the community access them, to things like Arduino or teensy or other microcontrollers or environments where the first embedded programming is done for you, so you don’t really have to start from scratch, you can hook together things and do a quick prototype without having to put in quite as much of an investment as you used to. And things like Digikey or Adafruit where being able to access, I need ten of a part is very easy and affordable now, and you don’t have to buy an entire real component to get it, you can find pretty much any component you want and order it in pretty much any quantity that you want. So the prototyping phase is a lot easier.
PAIGE: Yeah, it’s like we’re finally catching up with hardware where we’ve been with software for a long time. Like we’re building these hardware frameworks almost that kind of piece together in a way that makes things fast, easy, and accessible. I’ve seen so many things around Portland or other places where it’s like hey, come over and work on Arduino’s for the day, and just seeing like little kids up to big adults playing with hardware for the first time is really fascinating.
KAIA: Yeah, it’s amazing. That’s one of the reasons we wanted to make our product open source was that getting people, like the moment, whenever you have a programming language that you’re learning and you get Hello World to work, and when it’s like your first time programming anything, it’s a really magical feeling that like I got the computer to do this thing, and when you do it in hardware, when you get a light pattern to flash up or do things like that, it’s even more magical. It’s a tangible piece of the world that you are controlling through the code that you’re writing and it’s a really, really awesome feeling.
PAIGE: Yeah, I totally agree. This winter I played with my Raspberry Pie and some relays for the first time and made some lights light up and it was like as inspiring as Hello World is. This was even more like woah!
KAIA: Yeah, and I think the question for hardware is like the prototyping phase, we’re finally catching up, and it’s getting from your first working prototype into production which is obviously not something that every project wants, but if you’re trying to build a company and build products, you do eventually have to make the change away from 3D printing and hooking things together with cables and Arduino and so on. You have to make a fundamental shift in the technologies you’re using to move to even small scale mass production, and that’s something where there is a bunch of different people trying to figure out how to make it easier and make it better. But it’s still just very complicated that there is, not only do you have all of these systems where the changes you make to your electrical layout are going to make your actual physical hardware layout change, and that involves, you might need to get mechanical engineering skill and electrical engineering skill and industrial design type of skill all involved just to make what seems like it should be a really small change, which I mean, that’s a hard problem. And then figuring out what does that do when you take it into production, how does that change things, and very small changes can make very big changes and very big costs down the line.
PAIGE: Your margin for error is very small.
KAIA: Yeah, and it’s something from software where I think people have gotten so used to Agile or other sort of sprints to make quick changes in small increments and keep building on that, and it’s not something that transfers over to hardware necessarily as well, which is frustrating to someone who likes being able to fool around and try different things and realizing that there is much more kind of top down planning you have to do is not necessarily how people have trained to do it.
PAIGE: Yeah, you have to give a pivot for polish.
KAIA: Yeah that’s a great way of putting it.
PAIGE: So, in that vein, you guys ran an amazingly successful Kickstarter, originally reaching for $120,000.00 goal, you hit $650. What was that like to go through? What are some of the challenges you’ve had afterwards or during? Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
KAIA: Sure. It was an amazing experience in Kickstarter. Especially as the person who ends up being in charge of the business stuff, there is always the primary question in my mind, and before we did the Kickstarter was like I think there is a market for this. We’ve got a bunch of people on our mailing list, people seem to think it’s really interesting, but does anyone actually want this? You don’t really trust that people will want a product until they put in their credit card number. So that was great and sort of took this thing that I’ve been worrying about for months and sort of just eliminated it really quickly. It’s like yeah, there are a lot of people who kind of get what we’re trying to do and see why we’re trying to do it that way. And yeah, the whole Kickstarter experience was really cool. We did a cross country road trip from Boston where we used to live to San Francisco and stopped at Makerspaces just about every day and did little meet ups talking about here is how you could build your own keyboard with the materials and tools that are in this Makerspace, and letting people put their hands on our product. It’s a somewhat weird and different product, and so being able to put your hands on it, actually see it, actually try it out is the time when a lot of people sort of get it for the first time, and it was also kind of a great way, like Kickstarter, or any crowdfunding is a lot of work where you have people writing you every day and you have to manage are you doing ads, and there is all this stuff you have to kind of manage and being able to have something that we were doing every day that took the focus away from–its hyper focused on this campaign, and let us look and see what people were doing at different Makerspaces was really cool. We were lucky that it was sort of something that was on grand for us that we are open hardware, we did come out of kind of a hobby maker type of place, but honestly, it’s always so cool to see like what people are making and what people are doing and talk to people who do cool things and put cool things together.
ANGELA: How big is your team? Is it just you and your husband and some 1099?
KAIA: Yeah, we’ve floated up and down. We don’t have quite enough work in any one discipline to have another full time person coming on, but we have had in the past full time contractors from–currently we have a friend of mine who is working on EE, and she is, I don’t know, it will be a couple of weeks contract probably. We’re pretty close to being done with the electrical, and we’ve had people helping out with industrial design and mechanical as well at different points in the past, so I think peak size would be like five people and sometimes it’s just the two of us.
PAIGE: This is fascinating, a very cool story. I don’t know, I was wondering, so you said there is kind of embedded software for this. Do you guys actually run an embedded processor in the keyboard? Like is there something it’s actually running on like Arduino, Lennox, or whatever?
KAIA: The chip is an Apple chip. It’s an 18 mega 30T4, which is the same thing that’s in an Arduino Leonardo, so it’s not technically an Arduino because we’re not buying a board from Arduino, but we’re what we call Arduino at heart where essentially what we’ve done is take the Arduino and squish it onto our own board and made a couple of little changes, but it’s compatible with the Arduino developer environment. So right now I can just pull up the Arduino ID, use it to make changes to the firmware and use that to flash the keyboard which is cool. When we were trying to decide which architecture to use, we had actually originally been using something else and ended up switching over to this branch of Arduino because you just, you’re going to have to have some kind of processor anyway, like why not pick one that has this huge ecosystem of other people writing code and making devices that are compatible with it.
PAIGE: That makes total sense. Making that approachable is huge. So just one final question for you before we get out of here. Oh, I have two actually. First, I would love to know what you work in day to day for tools. I love to know other people’s stacks like what kind of tools are you using. You mentioned the Arduino IDE. Is there anything else that kind of keeps you going day to day? Especially I’m always interested in the business stack because I don’t touch that most of the time.
KAIA: We do sort of a mix of ad hoc tools and otherwise available tools. I would say the most important tool that we use is slack, which I’m sure you hear a lot is great for communication both within our team, with investors and contractors.
PAIGE: I think that might have actually been one of the first–you might be the first person to bring slack up on the show.
KAIA: Okay. It’s a great tool. I’m happy to evangelize about it. it’s a team communication tool, and it’s an example of really good design where it sort of sets the norms for communication being friendly and kind of fun, but also very easy to–it’s designed by the team that had made flikr back in the day, or a lot of the same team anyway, and it’s really software sort of made with love.
PAIGE: It’s a fantastic tool. I’m in slack every day, and I agree. I think it’s interesting because in my mind, like as a super old nerd, it’s like IRC with user friendliness. But super useful.
KAIA: We use hackpad for a lot of other things that don’t quite fit into slack in terms of communication, so daily to do lists, we’ve tried out probably most of the tools that are out there like Trello and so on for keeping track of thing and product management type tools, and every time we sort of just end up reverting back to Excel or Google Sheets in terms of they don’t add enough–the complexity that they add doesn’t add enough value to be worth it. And then some of the more mundane things like for payroll and accounting and stuff, I use Zero and Zenpayroll and all these SAS providers which are great and definitely much easier to use than some of the things that I had been using even a couple of years ago.
PAIGE: That’s a neat stack. I like that–slack is very cool. I definitely encourage people to check that out. I actually just signed up for the, there is a, I’m pretty sure it’s just Women in Tech Slack. It’s an invite only, but you can apply for an invitation and then you get invited and the community has been really great so far. They are very friendly and there is a lot of resource sharing and just general helping each other out which has been really cool. And my last question, before we ramble on any more is, looking at the future of kind of what’s happening in technology–be it hardware or software–what gets you the most excited?
KAIA: I think the thing that excites me the most is the fact that there are companies out there that are taking things that we already have technologies for and really applying a lot of thought and design to them. I mean, slack is an example of that where Hipchat had been around there for a long time, IRC has been around for decades, but they aren’t adding a lot of new functionality, they’re just taking a user experience that hadn’t been very good and transforming it into something that’s awesome.
ANGELA: Sounds like Apple.
PAIGE: A lot of people make that argument for things like Airbnb. Really originally it was Craig’s List, but ten percent better.
ANGELA: And focused.
PAIGE: And focused, yeah, and Uber. Uber is just a cab service.
KAIA: Yeah, and that’s a trend, as a user I completely appreciate and it’s starting to come into more enterprise tools as well. We just put in a preorder for a Glowforge which is a laser cutter which is something that is a great tool to have, but traditionally it costs $10,000.00 and you’ve ended up spending about a third to a half of your time with it trying to fix problems with different issues with it, and they’re coming out with a laser cutter at a lower price point that is also supported by software that takes away a lot of the pain points of using this tool. This is something that is a prototyping tool, it’s not used by consumers for the most part, but they’re still taking that philosophy and applying it to that. I think people’s expectations in terms of design have come up a lot, and that’s an amazing thing.
ANGELA: Thank you for listening to this episode of Women’s Tech Radio. Remember you can go to JupiterBroadcasting.com for the show notes as well as a full transcription, and you can find us on Twitter @heywtr.
PAIGE: We’d love to hear what you think about the show. If you’d like to tell us, you can use the contact form on the website or email us at wtr@jupiterbroadcasting.com. You can also follow us on Twitter @heywtr. Thanks for listening.

Transcribed by Carrie Cotter | Transcription@cotterville.net

The post Keyboardio | WTR 44 first appeared on Jupiter Broadcasting.

Juliet works as the Director of IT and Creative Services for Hearing Care Solutions. She made her way into the tech field because she likes money!

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Show Notes:

• Hearing Care Solutions
• Petroglyph Games
• Spotify Music
  

Full transcription of previous episodes can be found below or also at heywtr.tumblr.com

Transcription:

ANGELA: This is Women’s Tech Radio.
PAIGE: A show on the Jupiter Broadcasting Network interviewing interesting women in technology. Exploring their roles and how they are successful in technology careers. I’m Paige.
ANGELA: And I’m Angela.
PAIGE: Angela, today we’re interviewing Juliet Meyers who is a friend of mine, and she works for Hearing Care Solutions as an IT and web manager. She wears a lot of hats, and we get to talk about a whole bunch of that in the show.
ANGELA: And I hear she likes money.
PAIGE: I have heard that.
ANGELA: SO, before we get into the show, I want to tell you about how you can support this show. If you like this show, you can go to patreon.com/jupitersignal. That is how you support the whole network. Today represents Tech Talk Today. It is a show that we put on as a thank you for the people that subscribe to our network. By subscribing, you support the shows of the network, not just one in particular. And, as I mentioned, Tech Talk Today is the thank you show. You can also look forward to some interviews because we will be at Linux Fest Northwest this weekend, and it is going to be amazing. We hope to get some interviews and just some good content to talk about in a future show.
PAIGE: Women’s Tech Radio will be there along with most of the other hosts of the Jupiter Broadcasting Network, so come by and say hi if you’re there.
ANGELA: Yep, it’s in Bellingham, Washington.
PAIGE: And we started our interview today by asking Juliet to explain what she’s into in IT now.
JULIET: Hi there. My name is Juliet and I’m really excited to be on the show today. I’m the director of IT and creative services for a hearing aid company, and my role is to support all of our WordPress sites, of which there are multiple, desktop support as well as doing all the Photoshop, managing all the social media. I’m really a jack of all trades for my company, on top of trying to manage my VM ware boxes. I really run the gamut between doing more local box stuff as well as some of the server stuff, and as well, of course, running around and chasing people down through the internet for various different tasks, things like that. And, it’s a really varied role and I’ve learned a ton in the last couple of years, so I’m really, really excited to get to talk a little bit about it today.
ANGELA: So, any hats. I think that is a common theme of a lot of our interviews. IT can’t be pegged down to just one particular task. It’s not a button pushing job, that’s for sure. Like, not one single tasks. Can you elaborate on the social media aspect of what you do?
JULIET: One of the things that I do, I do a lot of the SEO installs for our various different websites, and then I also deal with some of the social media aspect. Social media is something that I have worked with throughout my last four jobs. I was a super early Twitter adopter. I think my Twitter handle is from 2007, my original one. I got to watch social media evolve. I used to be a community manager actually, for a company that went from having one million users to 13 million users.
ANGELA: Wow.
JULIET: Yeah, that was an experience. I’ve got some war stories from that. I used to work for a group called MapMyFitness and so I had the pleasure of watching them grow from an angel invested company all the way through to three rounds of VC funding and they actually got bought out by Under Armor in the last year, after I departed the company, but I really got to see social media as it started to grow. Back when they were just starting the F5 conferences, things like that.
PAIGE: So, do you enjoy your social media role?
JULIET: I do. The demographic that I work for is actually 55 and over, so a lot of the social media that I do presently is more answering questions and kind of directing people to the website. So, you know, we don’t have — we have more of a passive social media presence at the moment than we do an active one, where you might see in a startup or a tech firm.
ANGELA: Now, does that mean that the hearing aide company, I mean obviously mainly is geared towards elderly, but do you offer children’s hearing aids and young adults?
JULIET: We can, mostly we do a lot of Medicare and Medi-Cal, Medicaid.
ANGELA: Oh, okay, sure. Right.
JULIET: So, the majority — we have done children’s aids, but they are the rare exception, not necessarily the rule. But we do have some individuals who come in through Facebook every now and again, but it’s important for SEO and SEM to have those social media links and to push your blog. We get a lot of blog traffic, actually, through a couple of our different sites. So, that’s been really interesting to see. Obviously that’s a big deal in terms of your SEO rating.
ANGELA: Right. You know, interestingly enough, even though elderly is your target demographic, it’s probably their kids helping them –
JULIET: Yep, exactly.
ANGELA: – getting the hearing aids. So, yeah, it’s definitely not all for not.
PAIGE: That’s interesting, because I was actually going to ask. It’s fascinating to me that you’re even getting questions on social medial about stuff.
JULIET: We do. You know, it’s funny, if you talk to — obviously you’ve got kind of the newer end of social medial, but the kids now, like the tweens, you early 20s looks at Facebook as the old people network.
ANGELA: Oh my gosh, no way.
JULIET: I kid you not. I kid you not.
PAIGE: No, that’s true.
JULIET: It breaks my heart. I remember when — I mean, obviously you guys do too — when Facebook and Myspace started hitting the scene.
ANGELA: Yeah.
PAIGE: Well, when Facebook first came out you had to have a .edu to even get on.
JULIET: That’s correct.
PAIGE: You had to be in college.
JULIET: Exactly, which is why I didn’t join initially, because I thought that was elitist.
ANGELA: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I’m like no, Myspace is fine.
JULIET: Right. I had two Myspace profiles, one for my radio persona and then one for me, because I used to work in radio. I used to be cool.
ANGELA: That’s news to me.
JULIET: But, it’s really fascinating to see — because both of my parents are well over 55 and they both have Facebook pages. They both use them to connect with family. So Facebook is not what it once was. I mean, what it is, one in six people on the planet has a Facebook.
ANGELA: Geez.
PAIGE: Yeah.
JULIET: I think I read that statistic somewhere on the internet, which means it has to be true.
PAIGE: Statistics don’t lie.
ANGELA: As long as it was @fact on Twitter I think you’re good.
JULIET: Right.
ANGELA: I believe everything that one says, no.
JULIET: Clearly you should. And I believe everything Reddit tells me, so we’re about even.
ANGELA: Right.
PAIGE: So, you’ve talked some about SEO, and for those in the know, what does SEO mean/stand for?
JULIET: SEO is Search Engine Optimization. You’ll also occasionally read SEM, which is Search Engine Marketing. What that is, is basically trying to kick Google in a way that Google likes to be kicked to put your webpage up at the top.
PAIGE: Okay, and is that a skillset like you went to college for to learn search engine marketing or whatever?
JULIET: No. Yeah, right, no. I’ve been out of college a while. So, my degree is actually in broadcast journalism. My background is in television and radio. I know of organically — that’s a fun word — fell into this area of tech. My journey kind of started — I left Las Vegas and CBS in 2009 and actually got a job here in Denver working as a quality assurance tester. My background for QA is actually in video games. I worked for Petroglyph Studios for a number of years (inaudible) out of Las Vegas. And I think they have a new game out. They always have a new game out. I don’t recall what it is, but — Grey Goo, I think is the name of it. Anyway, I started doing quality assurance and testing for MapMyFitness in software and I ended up moving into their customer service division, which included all of — there was 12 employees when I started and I think it was around 100 when I departed. So, I ended up in customer service and became their CSR Manager, and that meant I was doing all of the software testing and then doing all of the releases on Facebook, all of that fun stuff on Twitter, and through all of their different marketing channels. So, I kind of learned about SEO and SEM in the field as it was becoming more prevalent around 2010. So, I just got very lucky in that I got to grow up with the position and kind of grow into SEO marketing. It was a huge part of what we did for MapMyFitness, because everything had to be very geotagged. Which is to say, I live in Austin, Texas, and I want to find all of the great runs or cycling routes. And so, everything that we did for that company was very, very built into — we actually had a great development team — everything was very, very stringently built into the code to encourage people to, when they Googled trail Austin, Texas, that’s what would come up. So it’s a marriage of marketing as well as an agile development team, and I mean that more in the actual term of agile, not just the developmental style.
PAIGE: Obviously, you didn’t start in tech, and you’ve kind of wound up in tech. What was that moment like or kind of the transition? Why the transition? What kind of spurred you to get out of radio to move over to do QA?
JULIET: I like money.
PAIGE: I can understand that story.
ANGELA: I like money.
JULIET: Yeah, that’s really the base part of it. I was living in Las Vegas and I worked for NPR for a number of years, and that was absolutely fantastic. It was a great experience, and I did a lot of different things for them, and then decided that I wanted to travel a little bit more. So, I wandered off to Guam for six months. Came back to the United States and just kind of wanted to get back into radio, but I wanted to get back into commercial radio. Commercial and non-profit radio are very, very different, and I wanted to live that lifestyle, but part of the joy and detriment of radio is that it is a lifestyle. You are literally eating, sleeping, and breathing radio. I mean that is — that’s all of it. So, I went back to school, go another set of certifications and got into it. Had a great time, met some really interesting people, did some interesting things, and then decided that I didn’t want to work three jobs to support my radio habit, because the only way you can truly support yourself in radio is if you have the morning show or you are the afternoon drive show and/or have an wealthy spouse. So, I worked four jobs, 70 hours a week to support the radio habit.
ANGELA: Oh my gosh. Wow.
JULIET: Yeah, I loved it though. I mean, it was great. I did it for a number of years, and it was fantastic, but then I kind of was starting to stare down the barrel of my 30s and a buddy of mine said hey we have an opportunity, why don’t you come out to Denver and I said I really would like to stop working like a crazy person.
ANGELA: Okay, so I have a question.
JULIET: Sure.
ANGELA: In my background, I worked for five years at a medical supply company, and I started in the shipping department and worked my way up. Then I moved to purchasing, and then I moved upstairs to customer service, and then I kind of just became the operations manager without the title.
JULIET: Oops.
ANGELA: Oh, it’s fine. It’s because there was an operations manager, but anyway, the point is, I had to learn all about the billings aspects and all the different — have you had to learn that and has that been an adjustment? Do you enjoy it? What is your level of participation?
JULIET: I love my job right now. Every day is different for me. It’s fantastic. I get to — you know, from the little things of why doesn’t my printer work to, oh God, oh God, it’s on fire, why are the servers not responding. Oh God, Oh God, please help. Crisis management is something I’m very accustomed to when you work in radio and there is flooding happening, or you have to suddenly change things, or someone says a naughty word on the air. There are a series of fire drills that go with that. And then I jumped directly from that particular pan right back into the fire, which is to say a startup. And anybody who has worked in a startup knows what that comes with. It is like a four letter word. I still had PTSD from something called the Tour de France. So, crisis management is something that I live for, I’m very comfortable in, and I’m very lucky that the company I work for now is actually run and managed by women. All of our executives — the majority of our executives, excuse me, are women who are exceptionally skilled in their field. They’re visionaries in their field and are absolutely fantastic. So, you know, I’ve been given the opportunity to really learn how to use a VM ware machine. Obviously, my background was not necessarily in that. I have an extensive Photoshop background, so I’ve gotten to learn more about CSS. I’ve gotten to really get to know WordPress in a very intimate fashion, because we do a lot of — we are very agile in our website development here. So, we make a large number of changes, and so it’s my job just to never say no. So, I’m sure you guys understand where that goes.
PAIGE: That is the IT magic, right? Never say no.
JULIET: Right. So, my job is to say yes and get it done as (inaudible) and with pizazz and a smile on my face, and I absolutely love the company I work for. I cannot say enough good things about them. They take great care of their team members, and empower their executives and their management to make those decisions that are going to make the company better. We are doing something amazing. We are really helping people get hearing aids, because it’s a bloated market. People can pay up to 3,000 — Three, four, $5,000.00 per hearing aid and we offer them for significantly less, so I get to go home feeling good about what I do.
PAIGE: Yeah, that’s huge is when your job feels like it makes a difference. What is the hardest part for you? You like the crisis. It seems like you like the learning and the job. What are your pain points with IT?
JULIET: I have learned a lot, but there are still some things that I don’t necessarily understand. You know, when something doesn’t work, I use an Asterisk phone system and I don’t program in Asterisk, in fact, I don’t program much in anything, except maybe HTML. I’m a WordPress jockey, I’m not a dev. So, when I run into something where I’m going — my problem is maybe, you look at a problem and you know it’s above your skill level, and it’s that moment of I need to get everything back online and back okay, but I’m not exactly sure how to do that. Fortunately, we have a wonderful offsite IT team that I can call on and say hey guys, this is above my pay grade, so what’s broken. And they’re fantastic. They’ve actually been great tutors and have been very helpful. So, it’s been a really, really good experience. But definitely my challenges are when I come across something where I just have absolutely no idea. I had to teach myself Active Directory. I had to teach myself how to deal with a Microsoft Exchange server. I have several things that run on SQL. While I’ve done a ton of SQL quarries, which I hate by the way, if I had to choose one thing to hate, I’m going to go with SQL quarries.
PAIGE: That’s not a bad choice.
JULIET: Yeah, I don’t feel like it is. I think my biggest challenge — I don’t — I think if I worked in a different company that had a different management — I think if I had a different management team my experience would be very different. I remember in other companies there’s that jockeying for tech supremacy, or who knows the most things about X, Y, and Z. And I have an incredibly supportive management team. I think probably dealing with the Mac is probably my least favorite. Fortunately, my boss, the COO of the company is fantastic and speaks Mac more fluently than I do.
PAIGE: Yeah, that tech superiority, I’ve definitely run into that. I think one of the biggest problems I had when I was working in IT was the IT culture where what you know is what makes you valuable, so sharing what you know is not necessarily a good move on your part. And so kind of breaking down those walls of, hey let’s make this information open, it’s all online anyway now guys. Like, we have to be a team.
ANGELA: Yeah.
JULIET: Stack overflow is your friend.
PAIGE: But especially with geek culture, what you know and how smart you are is how valuable you are. Kind of breaking those barriers down is very difficult in some of these older (inaudible) IT departments. So, that’s really cool that you found a space that that’s not the case. Very rare.
JULIET: I’m so protective of my company, because they have been so good to me, but it is rare. And you find that, I think, more in male dominated culture. In some of my previous companies, and I won’t name names, people were retained because of the knowledge that they have, or because they built something that was vital. Even though they had no business being in the company anymore. They were jaded. They were bitter. They were upset.
PAIGE: Yeah.
JULIET: But they were retained because they had a certain skillset or because they had coded something that only they knew how it worked. Because you run into that technical debt issues if you want to try and fix that particular code base.
ANGELA: That’s a great term for it, technical debt.
JULIET: I did not come up with that term. I stole that from someone else. It’s a buzzword.
PAIGE: It’s a perfect duplication of the word though. It is that, you know, you have to pay back this technical debt or you have to deal with some jerk. Your choice.
JULIET: Yep.
PAIGE: And most companies are going to choose the jerk, because it’s cheaper.
JULIET: Yep, it’s so expensive to bring on new people, especially at that level.
PAIGE: It is really fascinating once you dig into HR management at all, is like the most expensive part of people is onboarding. We are very, very expensive to onboard.
ANGELA: Oh yes.
JULIET: Yep.
PAIGE: Your productivity in most companies doesn’t hit its normal until at least six months in.
JULIET: Yep. And it’s a miserable place to be in. I mean, fortunately we’re not bringing any high-end tech people out there, but even my call center representatives or any of that kind of middle management section, it’s a long time before they’re onboard. And we find that here, even though we’re not an overwhelmingly technical company.
PAIGE: You’ve talked a lot of about learning a lot of different things on the job. What are you favorite resources?
JULIET: My boss.
PAIGE: Nice.
JULIET: Honest to God, she’s my favorite resource.
PAIGE: So, that one on one kind of mentorship almost, is really super valuable for you?
JULIET: You know, being able to sit down and talk to somebody who — because her background is actually in — she did a ton of QA work. She’s done project management. She’s extremely valuable and she knows the business so, so well. The team here is absolutely the best resource that I have. My peers are fantastic. My bosses are fantastic. That’s really a great resource. But, in terms of tech, if I run into something that I have no idea on or my boss has no idea on, but it’s still my responsibility, and it’s not something I can hand off to our offsite folks, Skype and G Chat to be perfectly frank. I have a huge network of friends who are developers, who are DBAs who I’m still in contact with. And so when I run into something that I just can’t seem to crack, I will absolutely reach out to them. Either they’ll direct me to a blog or they’ll direct me to something that they’ve worked on, or they’ll simply write the SQL query for me.
ANGELA: Yay.
PAIGE: So, you’re living the, your network is your net worth?
JULIET: Yes. And that is true in my personal life as well. My skillset is my Verizon network. I’ve got friends who spent the last few years working in WordPress, and so when I run across something that’s rough like that, really it’s your ability to use Google. How good is your Google-Fu. If you don’t have a network to reach out to, how good is you Google-Fu?
PAIGE: Alright, so one more question on that. How do you get over that fear of asking questions, because I think a lot of people that we talk to kind of have that initial fear. And a lot of people that I talk to who are just getting into software are like, you know, I don’t want to sound dumb, or I don’t want to feel like a burden. What kind of let you have that transition to not feel that way?
JULIET: I spent a lot of time interviewing people. I’m an extrovert, unlike most of my comrades in tech. I know there is a lot of introverts in this field, and it makes sense because you truly geek out about this stuff. Like, I could I could sit here and talk about Google algorithms for hours, but I think it’s — getting over that hurdle for me is understanding that I didn’t start out in this field. I accept that here are, I know nothing John Snow. I — there is a lot of kind of — there’s a lot of sections of this that I know nothing about, and I’m okay with that. But the only way to learn is to ask. And more importantly, most tech folks, if you ask them, they’ll talk ad nauseum (sic) about this stuff. They absolutely love to goob about it. I have a lot of experts in various (inaudible). Like, I’ve got people who work for cloud storage companies who could talk endlessly. I’ve got a buddy who’s an evangelist for Solid Fire, one of the cloud companies out in Boulder, Colorado, because that’s where all the cool tech things are these day, apparently. So, it’s human nature. Folks like to talk about what they do for a living. They like to talk about tech. Really, just asking them, they’re happy to yammer about it.
PAIGE: Yeah, the one thing that I’ve found is that most geeks are introverts, which is always hard to deal with, but they have passions and that’s what makes us geeks. Being passionate about something is why we call it geeking out on something. So, if you can kind of find those people in your network or meet those people at meetups, and find their geeky thing. You’re like, oh that’s the thing I need to know about.
ANGELA: And then they turn extravert, just momentarily.
JULIET: Yeah.
PAIGE: You just pull the string on a little toy that talks and it just goes. Very cool. Actually, I think that’s actually an interesting thing that you brought up is the art of the interview. I think, you know, I got really super into radio and the PRN stuff, and I love the art of the question. I think kind of setting that, as a geek, because I geeked out on it, I feel like I was able to incorporate that skill too. I would also recommend if you’re feeling like you don’t even know how to start a conversation, check out interviewing.
JULIET: Listen to NPR for a few hours, Morning Edition or Fresh Air.
PAIGE: Yeah, totally.
I had one other question as we wrap up.
JULIET: Sure.
PAIGE: What software piece do you spend the most of your day in? What are your tools of the trade for your job?
JULIET: Photoshop I think is at the tippy, tippy top. What is Chrome for $500 Alex. I love Chrome. I love the extensions on that. I’ve got CSS viewer, I cannot live without. I cannot live without that plugin, oh my God.
PAIGE: You’ve got to try Firebug, Juliet, I’m telling you.
JULIET: Oh, if I’m in Firefox and I’m QA’ing, Firebug 100 percent.
PAIGE: Oh, they put Firebug in Chrome now too.
JULIET: Really?
PAIGE: Yeah.
JULIET: Oh, I need that. I need that a lot. I thought I could only use it in Firefox so I have both browsers. So, if I’m doing QA work or something is not working, Firebug is absolutely my go to.
PAIGE: Yeah, awesome dev tools.
JULIET: So good. So good. There’s a couple of other ones that I use. Really, the Adobe suite, because I do a lot of PDF conversions, so In Design, I spend a lot of time in In Design. Obviously, WordPress, WordPress, and more WordPress. I can’t live without Dropbox. Microsoft Office, they’ve done some cool stuff with PowerPoint recently. I know it’s really rare to actually give props to Microsoft for anything, but I really do love PowerPoint, as well as Excel. But yeah, I think Photoshop and Chrome are really where I spend the majority of my day. There are so many good resources just (inaudible) as it is. That’s really where I spend a lot of my time. And I can’t live without Spotify, just for the record.
ANGELA: Thank you for listening to this episode of Women’s Tech Radio. Remember, you can contact us using our contact form at www.jupiterbroadcasting.com , which is also where you can go to the show’s dropdown and look at all the Women’s Tech Radio episodes that have been released. There you will also find the transcription of the episodes, which you can also find at www.heywtr.tumblr.com.
PAIGE: You can also check us out on iTunes or follow us on Twitter at heywtr. If you have a moment, take the time to leave a review on iTunes and let us know what you think of the show. Thanks for listening.

Transcribed by Carrie Cotter – transcription@cotterville.net.

The post Network Is Your Net Worth | WTR 23 first appeared on Jupiter Broadcasting.

Many of us have at some point dreamed of uploading an app or launching a web-service and becoming fabulously wealthy. For the most part we are all sadly mistaken.

This episode is all about dashing dreams and facing the biting wind of reality.

And your feedback!

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Show Notes:

Feedback

• Emmet rights in again, sharing a solution to his issue.
• Charles schools me a bit on the nitty gritty differences between LLVM and GCC. He also points out that C was at one point called “Portable Assembler”, so HAH!
• Nicholas sends me a message in C!
• James asks if I am using the Intel River Trail API at all and asks if we have a CR subreddit.
• Atcl shares a great resource and some thoughts on the value of knowing assembler
• Brandon would like some information on services like oDesk, eLance, and vWorker as a source for work.
• Thomas and a number of others have joined me in trying Pomodoro coding and overall they seem to like it.

Technical Dependencies

• What’s a dependency?
• Dependencies you must take.
• The risk of taking too many dependencies
• Avoiding Dependencies
• This sounds an awful lot like “Not Invented Here Syndrome”

Distribution Dependencies: What Is a Store When It Wants to Be More?

• GOLD RUSH!
• Do App Stores show preference to “certain” developers?
• Distribution limited API’s?
• Those rankings are legit… right?
• Those reviews are real… right?
• App Stores put small and large developers on a level playing field… maybe… no?
• These problems are coming to an OS near you.

Human Dependencies or the Rockstar Syndrome

• About that bus….
• Fire any and all “Rockstars”

Vote in our Poll:

• Do you use Unity

Mike’s Plug

• Code Journal

Tool of the Week

• Sublime Text 2

Book of the Week

• Turing’s Cathedral

The post The Dream is a Lie | CR 08 first appeared on Jupiter Broadcasting.